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The burden of proof is on you. |
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Josh 10:12
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The way God has designed this force we call "gravity" did not change in 1905, 1906, or 1907. All that changed was our understanding of how it works in terms of our ability to calculate/predict its effects. Gravity did not become stronger or weaker, but we can now 'look' at it from a different perspective.
As to this whole conversation about defining truth, the crux of the matter is that people tend to confuse 'truth' (as statements or propositions that are equivalent with objective fact -e.g., GWBush is currently serving as President of the United States government) with 'meaning' or 'significance' (as statements that reflect our understanding of evidence - e.g., someone claiming that GWB is not President of the United States because they believe that the evidence demonstrated in the election process did not warrant his swearing in, and they refuse to recognize him as President).
In terms of the discussion re: the sun standing still, the considerable lack of evidence we have available as to the astronomic facts at that time would seem to allow for a variety of possibilities (including: the sun literally stood still, and God adjusted everything else to fit accordingly; the earth stopped rotating, then started again, also with God adjusting everything else accordingly, so Joshua did not shoot off into space or be crushed by 'gravity' without the counteracting centrifugal (centripetal? I got a C in college physics) force, etc.; God decreased the rate at which Joshua et al. traveled through time; etc. etc.
The point being reminiscent of Yoda's advice to young Luke Skywalker, "size matters not." It is no more difficult for God to perform a universe-wide miracle than to turn a bit of water into the best wine.
Returning to 'truth,' suffice it to say that Jesus' claim to BE THE TRUTH speaks volumes as to his eternal and divine nature, the factual guarantee of his Lordship, and the certainty of his return.
Cheers!
one 'disciple' among many
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Should a Christian be a Mason? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Your question is one I've pondered quite a bit for both curiosity and personal reasons.
Here's some history I've found: Several leaders throughout American History believed in God and were also Masons.
To name a few: REV. WILLIAM BOOTH, was a Mason and the founder of the Salvation Army, who during the course of his ministry traveled 5,000,000 miles, preached 60,000 sermons (many while being attacked, spit on, and so forth for spreading the Gospel of Christ).
FRANCIS SCOTT KEY, was a Mason and the author of our anthem in which he wrote in verse 2: "Blest with vict'ry and peace, may the heav'n rescued land praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation! Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just; And this be our motto: "In God is our trust!"
BISHOP RICHARD ALLEN, a former slave and active abolitionist, was also a Mason, founder and first Bishop of the African Methodist Episcopal Church in Philadelphia.
GEORGE WASHINGTON, took the oath of office as our nation's 1st President by placing his hand on a Bible provided by the Masonic Lodge to which he was a member. One of his first official acts as President was to issue the first Thanksgiving proclamation as follows: "Whereas, it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly implore His protection and favor...."
(Just FYI: That same Bible is still provided by the Masonic Lodge for Presidential oaths... and was even used by Presidents Reagan and Bush.)
On a more personal note: several members of my family are affiliated with the Masons, Shriners, and even the lesser known Eastern Star (the women's side of the organization).
I've talked with them, questioned them repeatedly, and watched their own actions to determine whether the Masonic lodge has had any determental affect on their behavior as Christians. My grandmother, who was active in the Eastern Star in her younger days (she's 87 now), was also a life-long Sunday School teacher, a very devout Christian and the role-model that helped lead me to accept Christ as my Savior. My grandfather is a Mason, Shriner, and a very active Christian even to this day at the age of 90. Incidentally, the two just celebrated their 70th wedding anniversary by what-else? Going to Church! :)
My Dad is also a Christian and Mason. I can't speak for others, but I can say that I've point-blank confronted my Dad about whether Masonry is a religion to him. He strongly denied it and told me no one could replace Christ in his life. He also said that while a man "must believe in God" to join a lodge ... they are asked if they believe in God and if they even hesitate in answering, they're out... the organization does not take the place of nor promote any specific religion, or what-have-you. That is, they'll accept as members Muslims, Jews, and Christians (of all denominations), but absolutely no athiests or agnostics. (On a side note, at least in some cases, members are given Bibles--King James Version to be exact--upon becoming a Mason.) The organization, at least for the family members I've talked to, does not replace their devotion to God or their church community. For my Dad and Grandfather, the Freemasonry and Shriners are men's clubs that provides a means for helping their community and needy kids.
So, I'd have to say Christians can be Masons, but as with anything, one's priorities must be maintained. Christ must remain Lord of your life and anything that threatens that should be dealt with and abandoned. If as a Christian you are uncomfortable with the organization having secrets or feel it may be viewed as a religion, then by all means do NOT join. For those Christians who are in the organization, remember Christ and keep Him first in your life.
God bless,
Brandi
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Isn't writing G-d a Jewish thing? |
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Bible general Archive 1
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Norrie,
Questioner is our Muslim friend and he does the same thing. So it is not just a Jewish "thing". I think the matter is very serious to both groups.
The Jews did not write or say His name, because they did not want to take His name in vain (Exo 20:7).
We take the name of our Lord lightly. We do not stand up and speak out when someone makes it common, or even worse, drags it in the sewer water.
His name is holy, that is separated from all others ... higher than calling Mr. Bush, Mr. President. Maybe 5 million times higher is not high enough.
Off my soapbox,
Steve |
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Should Christian Churches unite |
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1 Thess 5:2
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Yes, I agree with you here Brian. I believe that this is a great sin (even though it is not the unforgivable sin). And I am at peace with the recent decision made by President Bush regarding the continuance of this research- that there will be no more continued federal funding of this research whatsoever! I side right with him when he stated in his National Address that we are "playing with the seeds of the next generation" here, and I advocate strongly that all Christians should be in favor of stopping this research as well as the research on "Cloning."
--Nolan |
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Should Christian Churches unite |
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1 Thess 5:2
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Greetings Nolan!
Concerning President Bush's decision, I thought that he agreed to fund the research on existing stem cell lines! I was very disappointed with his decision. He tried to compromise, but all he did was open the door a little wider. Suppose that cures are actually found using the existing stem cell lines, do we really believe that everyone is simply going to stop and say, "We can't destroy any more humans."
I am more concerned about this issue than about cloning. There really isn't any use for cloning other than perhaps growing organs. However, stem cell research has many possibilities. Unfortunately, to harvest them a life has to be destroyed.
Keep this matter is prayer. I am very ashamed of our country right now!
Your Brother in Christ,
Tim Moran |
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Should Christian Churches unite |
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1 Thess 5:2
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Hello Tim!
Perhaps I misinterpreted President Bush's message.. I was under the understanding that all stem cell research would cease.
It doesn't surprise me in the least, compared with this country's recent history. Yes, this is disappointing news if they are going ahead with the research using our tax dollars.
Regardless of what they decide, this country needs prayer.
Your Brother in Christ,
Nolan |
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Should Christian Churches unite |
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1 Thess 5:2
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Greetings Nolan!
You can find President Bush's complete speech at:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/
I am amazed at how the public has simply turned a blind eye to the issue of life. I was watching a news program the other day and one of the supporters of this decision kept calling the embryo "potential life." I was furious. I kept wanting to ask him, "When does life begin?" History keeps repeating itself. When Germany wanted to exterminate a whole race of people, they simply de-humanized them. When the Supreme Court wanted to justify slavery, they simply de-humanized slaves. Now, we have de-humanized the most helpless life of all. I am afraid to see what God will do about this. We will be held accountable for this one.
Peace Brother,
Tim Moran |
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Should Christian Churches unite |
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1 Thess 5:2
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Dear Tim,
Here is some interesting information on stem cell research..
"Newsletter of the American Life League:
COMMUNIQUE - a pro-life news update
From: Judie Brown August 17, 2001 Vol. 11, No. 37
-----------------------------------------
Bush, embryonic stem cells and personhood
...Through the use of his carefully weighed rhetoric, the president consistently worked to undermine the fundamental, irrefutable scientific fact at the core of this issue: that human life begins at conception/fertilization and that there is never an acceptable reason for intentionally taking an innocent human life. While even
supposedly presenting the pro-life perspective in portions of his presentation, he used terms such as "potential life," "cluster of cells," "seeds," "byproduct," and strategically omitted "human" in key places serving to obfuscate these scientific and ethical realities.
In addition, funding in research on cell lines already established through the destruction of human embryos imputes an unethical complicity on our government and our country. For the first time in the history of the United States, the federal government will support research which may benefit others relying upon the destruction of innocent, defenseless human persons who were killed. This allows our nation's research to continue to cultivate a disrespect for human life.
Furthermore, what will happen if initial research proves to be promising? Virtually all scientists agree that these 60 cell lines will not be sufficient for the research needed. What will President Bush do when researchers may be on the verge of a breakthrough and approach him, asking for more cell lines to complete the task?
According to this precedent, he will have to provide more funding. He has opened this door and the slippery slope is indeed intact and functional. We have every reason to believe that he would break his commitment again.
Finally, this sad event once again illustrates to the pro-life community that the sole protector of innocent human life is objective truth. When politicians attempt to win our support while compromising objective moral principles, it just sets a precedent for future defeat and the continued destruction of innocent human life. Only when we first require adherence to objective truth from politicians will we be able to protect innocent human life from the moment of conception/fertilization.
For further analysis from those organizations and commentators who have seen through the rhetorical gymnastics uttered by President Bush, we recommend the following:
AMBASSADOR ALAN KEYES (DECLARATION NETWORK):"Embryonic Stem Cell
Research Not an Agonizing Choice," 7/24/01,
http://www.declaration.net/z-spec-df3-pr.asp
CAL THOMAS: "President Bush's Compromise," 8/13/01,
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20010813.shtml.
CHARLOTTE ALLEN: "Bush Cell-Out: Worse than Morally Obtuse," 8/13/01,
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-allen081301.shtml.
CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: "Profit from Killing Human Beings," 8/10/01,
http://www.cwfa.org/library/life/2001-08-10 (underscore) stem-cell.shtml.
FLIP BENHAM (OPERATION SAVE AMERICA): "How Long Will You Waver Between Two Opinions, America?" 8/10/01,
http://www.operationsaveamerica.org/press/press/010810-
responsetostemcell.html.
FR. THOMAS EUTENEUER (HUMAN LIFE INTERNATIONAL): "Statement Regarding
Stem Cell Research Funding," 8/10/01,
http://www.hli.org/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/001/250chmzc.asp.
JUDICIAL WATCH: "Bush Stem Cell Decision Breaks Campaign Pledge and Betrays Pro-Life Conservatives," 8/10/01,
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press (underscore)release.asp?pr (underscore) id (equals) 1481.
KENNETH CONNOR (FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL): news release, 8/9/01,
http://www.frc.org/press/content.cfm?get (equals)release (amperstand) id (equals) P01H02.
NCCB-USCC PRO-LIFE OFFICE FACT SHEET: "President Bush's Stem Cell Decision,"
http://www.nccbuscc.org/prolife/issues/bioethic/fact801.htm.
PHYLLIS SCHLAFLY (EAGLE FORUM): "Clinton's Culture of Death Continues," 8/10/01, http://www.eagleforum.org/news/01-08-10 (underscore) stem-cell.shtml.
REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COALITION FOR LIFE FAXNOTES: "Bush Policy Forces Taxpayers into Cooperation with Evil," 8/10/01,
http://www.rnclife.org/faxnotes/2001/aug01/01-08-10.shtml.
TRADITIONAL VALUES COALITION: "Human Life Must Be Sacred," 8/10/01,
http://www.traditionalvalues.org/prStemCell.html."
--Nolan
Note: An amperstand is: An underscore is: And an equals sign is: Thank you! |
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Prosperity and Deut. 28? |
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Matthew
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He was talking to Israel, but when you become a child of God you become as one of the children of Israel. The conditions were to heed to the commandments that God gave and to hearken unto his voice. Yes they are for us today. You have put GOd in some kind of a box. I didn't say that he had to bless us, but he does have to honor his word or it would not be true. You are still trying your best to put the "Word of Faith" doctrine and seed-time and harvest to a test that has already been passed. I think the real problem with the Word of Faith doctrine is the messengers, not the Word. But, you fail to realize that the Word of Faith is God's doctrine and not man's. God spoke and things happened according to his own faith-he also told us that we should call those things which be not as though they were, because he did. It is also written that without faith it is impossible to please him. If you don't have the faith to believe in seed time and harvest then don't go to the grocery store to buy vegetables. They won't be there. Don't pay tithes any more because it's not building your ministry and the devourer is not being rebuked. If you don't plant a seed in good ground then you won't get a harvest. Come on Tim, you can't tell me that after all these years of pastoring you haven't come across the words seed time and harvest or where Paul talks about the importance of giving. I give to the church because I'm glad to GOd's happy with it and I'm happy with it. I also expect to be blessed by what he does. If he will curse you for not titheing and giving offerings he will bless you for being obediant. What a man sows that he shall also reap. If you sow kindness you'll get kindness, if you sow hatred you get hatred. Just like cause and effect. If you adhere to all he says to do, he'll open his good treasure unto you, and you shall lend and not borrow. The world should be coming to us for things and not us going to them. We should be able to fund the tent revival or camp meeting with tithes and offerings not with bake sales and car washes. I don't know what you believe, but It is working in my life. God is the only one who can give an increase, so I have not misapplied any of his principles in my life. Brother I would hope that trying so much to explain why God does things instead of receiving the outcome will stop. I am going to receive all he has for me, and it's not just material. You and others can call me greedy, money hungry or whatever-I know what the word says and I'm standing on it. I am the rightousness of God and if he said I was his heir and a joint heir with his son, I have everything he has. When do we get an inheritance? Usually when a person dies right. Well Jesus already died the time for us to prosper is here and I'm accepting it. I am not going to continue to be happy in my current situation. This is just like saying if you live in a steel shed be glad it's not raining on your head. If you get food stamps be glad you have something to eat. Well some of us aren't happy in the system. We depend on the system instead of God well he is my provider. I provide with my seed whatever he wants me to do with it and he said I will get a harvest. Seeds don't just continue to grow. At some point you have to gather the crop. If you don't understand why I believe ask God to show you a ministry to plant a seed into. Not just money whatever kind of seed. Then wait on your harvest, but don't stop serving. A faithful man shall abound in blessing. I believe this because I've seen it happen. I learned this scripture while someone was blessing me for being faithful. While I was thanking them for the kindness and thanking God they quoted this scripture. It's all true. Please understand that what you say or what Benny Hinn says or what Joyce Meyer or President Bush says will not change my mind. Not because I heard it on some TV show but becasue it has been revealed in my life. "No body" can tell me that I didn't experience it. |
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Prosperity and Deut. 28? |
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Matthew
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Greetings Kimberly!
Thanks for the response!
There is a lot in this post, but I really just intended on focusing on Deut. 28. We must always be sure that what we believe is based on a solid understanding of Scripture.
I asked three questions. You answered the first two correctly. Moses was addressing the nation of Israel and the condition for blessing or cursing was disobedience or obedience to God's covenant.
Let's fill this out a little bit though. Was Moses saying in Deut. 28 that every individual person within the nation of Israel would be blessed or was he saying that the nation would be blessed? Notice the context:
a) Deut. 28:1 - "If you fully obey the LORD your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the LORD your God will set you high above all the nations on earth."
b) Deut. 28:3 - "You will be blessed in the city and blessed in the country."
c) Deut. 28:36 - "The LORD will drive you and the king you set over you to a nation unknown to you or your fathers. There you will worship other gods, gods of wood and stone."
d) Deut. 28:52 - "They will lay siege to all the cities throughout your land until the high fortified walls in which you trust fall down. They will besiege all the cities throughout the land the LORD your God is giving you."
e) Deut. 28:62 - "You who were as numerous as the stars in the sky will be left but few in number, because you did not obey the LORD your God. 63 Just as it pleased the LORD to make you prosper and increase in number, so it will please him to ruin and destroy you. You will be uprooted from the land you are entering to possess."
We can see from the context that these promises were addressed to a nation, not individuals. Within the nation, there would be a wide range of personal situations, some would prosper, some would not.
This is why it is dangerous and incorrect to take a passage that applied to one nation and say it must therefore apply to us as well. Even if it did, the application would be to our nation, not to every single individual.
****************************
Toward the end of your post you made this comment:
"I am not going to continue to be happy in my current situation. This is just like saying if you live in a steel shed be glad it's not raining on your head. If you get food stamps be glad you have something to eat. Well some of us aren't happy in the system."
My sister in Christ, this is exactly opposite of what Scripture commands us to do. Heb. 13:5 says, "Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, ‘‘Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” "
You also said, "While I was thanking them for the kindness and thanking God they quoted this scripture. It's all true. Please understand that what you say or what Benny Hinn says or what Joyce Meyer or President Bush says will not change my mind. Not because I heard it on some TV show but becasue it has been revealed in my life. "No body" can tell me that I didn't experience it."
So, are you basing this belief on Scripture or your experience? Which Scripture were you refering to that this person quoted for you?
Thanks for your wonderful spirit! I look forward to conversing with you again.
Your Brother in Christ,
Tim Moran
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Should we call gov;t leaders' sin sin? |
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Luke 3:19
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Welcome koinekid-
I'm not positive on this, but I don't believe the general public had a voice in who led the government at that time. And yet, even then, Jesus gave us the words to give unto Caesar the things that are Caeser's and Paul restated that by telling us in Romans to pay taxes and obey the government (Roman 13:7). However, when the government gives us an order that is in direct opposition to what the Word of God tells us (Acts 5:27-29), we have a mandate to disobey.
In our country, our government is chosen by the people. If after prayerful reveiw of the candidates and I believe seeing how their character and actions line up with God's Word, it is our responsibility to act with the freedom given to us and the wisdom given to us to vote for the one whom we believe will bring this country more in line with the guidelines God has set up. If an official is not doing what Jesus would do, we also are within our rights to tell it like it is. But we also have been told to pray for our leaders. God does appoint them,(I believe God put Clinton in office, just as much as Bush) and they will serve God's purpose for being there. Clinton's exploits caused this nation to ask itself "does character count?" and I don't know of an election where more people got down on their knees and prayed for God's will to be done. This past president caused people to eveluate where their allegiances are. And I would dare to say, no other president has had so many people praying for him to act in God's wisdom as G.W.Bush.
This got a little off the subject, but I also look at John the Baptist who pointed out that one of the government officials (Luke 3:18)had acted immorally. Of course, he was also imprisoned for it and lost his head. It is a good thing that doesn't happen in this country, right?
Debbie
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Prayer for the Terrorist Attack |
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1 Thess 5:3
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Greetings all Forum Members..
As the "Most Active User" among your company, I invite the opportunity for us all to come to prayer right now at this moment.. Let us take a moment of silence. Please pray with me..
"Dear Sovereign Lord Jesus in heaven, we come before You and before the Father and before the Holy Spirit, we lift up to You the events that have happened this morning on the Eastern Coast of the United States, that You will be present and active in the care of all of those who have been injured and who have lost their lives (and their families) and all of those who are involved or will be involved in this catastrophic tragedy that was created to engender only fear in the hearts and lives of this great nation.
Lord, we pray that you will be with our leaders and with President Bush and with those who protect our nation that you will help to guide, inspire and be with those who attempt to gain the information needed in our country's defense against the very REAL threat of terrorism. Dear Lord, we pray that you will blanket this nation with your protection and peace, and that you will calm the fears of this nation with the peace that passes all understanding. The entire nation has been shocked and is now very attentive to what has happened, and we pray that You would be glorified, even in this horrific event.
Lord Jesus, we also pray for those who perpetrated this diabolical event, that you would extend your peace and patience to them also, so that they may reconsider any future militaristic threat or course of action to our blessed nation.
Thank You Lord Jesus, and we pray and have faith that You would receive our prayer! For we love and worship a God that is ALIVE and ACTIVE and will come again soon! We praise You! In Your holy name we pray, Amen."
Nolan Keck, on behalf of the Christian men and women who participate in and sponsor the Study Bible Forum. |
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Opinions of J. Falwell on WTC attack. |
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Not Specified
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I would like to hear some opinions of what Jerry Falwell said regarding the attack on the World Trade Centers. Here is an excerpt from the Washington Post:
Friday, September 14, 2001; Page C03
Television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two of the most
prominent voices of the religious right, said liberal civil liberties groups,
feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights supporters bear partial
responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks because their actions have
turned God's anger against America.
"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give
us probably what we deserve," said Falwell, appearing yesterday on the
Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club," hosted by Robertson.
"Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded. "I think we've just seen the
antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the
major population."
Falwell said the American Civil Liberties Union has "got to take a lot of
blame for this," again winning Robertson's agreement: "Well, yes."
Then Falwell broadened his blast to include the federal courts and others who
he said were "throwing God out of the public square." He added: "The
abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be
mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God
mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the
feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that
an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of
them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face
and say, 'You helped this happen.' "
People for the American Way transcribed the broadcast and denounced the
comments as running directly counter to President Bush's call for national
unity. Ralph G. Neas, the liberal group's president, called the remarks
"absolutely inappropriate and irresponsible."
Robertson and others on the religious right gave critical backing to Bush
last year when he was battling for the GOP presidential nomination. A White
House official called the remarks "inappropriate" and added, "The president
does not share those views."
Falwell was unrepentant, saying in an interview that he was "making a
theological statement, not a legal statement."
"I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist," he
said. But he said America's "secular and anti-Christian environment left us
open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and
expels God from the culture . . . the result is not good."
Robertson was not available for comment, a spokeswoman said. But she released
a statement echoing the remarks he made on his show. An ACLU spokeswoman said
the group "will not dignify the Falwell-Robertson remarks with a comment." |
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Opinions of J. Falwell on WTC attack. |
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Rom 3:23
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I would like to hear some opinions of what Jerry Falwell said regarding the attack on the World Trade Centers. Here is an excerpt from the Washington Post:
Friday, September 14, 2001; Page C03
Television evangelists Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, two of the most
prominent voices of the religious right, said liberal civil liberties groups,
feminists, homosexuals and abortion rights supporters bear partial
responsibility for Tuesday's terrorist attacks because their actions have
turned God's anger against America.
"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give
us probably what we deserve," said Falwell, appearing yesterday on the
Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club," hosted by Robertson.
"Jerry, that's my feeling," Robertson responded. "I think we've just seen the
antechamber to terror. We haven't even begun to see what they can do to the
major population."
Falwell said the American Civil Liberties Union has "got to take a lot of
blame for this," again winning Robertson's agreement: "Well, yes."
Then Falwell broadened his blast to include the federal courts and others who
he said were "throwing God out of the public square." He added: "The
abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be
mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God
mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the
feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that
an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People for the American Way -- all of
them who have tried to secularize America -- I point the finger in their face
and say, 'You helped this happen.' "
People for the American Way transcribed the broadcast and denounced the
comments as running directly counter to President Bush's call for national
unity. Ralph G. Neas, the liberal group's president, called the remarks
"absolutely inappropriate and irresponsible."
Robertson and others on the religious right gave critical backing to Bush
last year when he was battling for the GOP presidential nomination. A White
House official called the remarks "inappropriate" and added, "The president
does not share those views."
Falwell was unrepentant, saying in an interview that he was "making a
theological statement, not a legal statement."
"I put all the blame legally and morally on the actions of the terrorist," he
said. But he said America's "secular and anti-Christian environment left us
open to our Lord's [decision] not to protect. When a nation deserts God and
expels God from the culture . . . the result is not good."
Robertson was not available for comment, a spokeswoman said. But she released
a statement echoing the remarks he made on his show. An ACLU spokeswoman said
the group "will not dignify the Falwell-Robertson remarks with a comment." |
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Opinions of J. Falwell on WTC attack. |
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Rom 3:23
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onnig, It bothers me that only certain groups of sinners were pointed out, we all are sinners.
I think it is a wakeup call to Christians. We take much for grant it.
-Are we lukewarm?
-Do we study the Word daily?
-Do we pray as we should?
-Do we let our light shine before men?
...
Steve |
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Opinions of J. Falwell on WTC attack. |
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Rom 3:23
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DATE: September 17, 2001
FROM: Jerry Falwell
WHY I SAID WHAT I SAID
by Jerry Falwell
Despite the impression some may have from news reports over the past
several days, I hold no one other than the terrorists, and the
people and nations who have enabled and harbored them, responsible
for the September 11 attacks on this nation.
I sincerely regret that comments I made during a theological
discussion on a Christian television program were taken out of their
context and reported, and that my thoughts - reduced to sound bites
- have detracted from the spirit of this time of mourning.
Like most Americans, I watched the September 11 tragedy unfold on
television. I immediately called our Liberty University family of
thousands together for prayer at 2 p.m. on the day of the attacks.
On Wednesday, one day later, I led the Thomas Road Church in another
call to prayer for America. On Friday, September 14th, President
Bush invited me to join him, his family and administration and 3,000
others to the National Cathedral for a special Day of Prayer and
Remembrance, where we asked God for His comfort, protection and
wisdom. Since then, by television and radio, I have attempted to
call together millions of people throughout this nation and around
the world in remembering all those who died, and praying for our
nation, the victims of this barbarism, and their loved ones.
On Sunday, September 16, the Thomas Road Baptist Church, where I
have served as pastor for 45 years, gathered thousands of dollars
for the families of New York firefighters. Our members also
gathered a huge collection of tools, clothing and other materials
for the New York rescue and recovery efforts.
My statements on the "700 Club" on Thursday, September 14th, were
called divisive by some whom I mentioned by name. I had no
intention of being divisive. I was sharing my burden for revival in
America on a Christian TV program, intending to speak to a Christian
audience from a theological perspective about the need for national
repentance. In retrospect, I should have mentioned the national
sins without mentioning the organizations and persons by name.
I stated the deep concerns of millions of American evangelicals over
America's sharp spiritual decline during the past generation.
Over 40 million unborn babies have been aborted since Roe v. Wade.
We have expelled God from the public square and the public schools.
We have normalized an immoral lifestyle God has condemned. American
families are falling apart. Because of our national moral and
spiritual decline during the past 35 years, I expressed my personal
belief that we have displeased the Lord and incurred his
displeasure.
I was asking a Christian audience on a Christian TV program to claim
II Chronicles 7:14 and repent. I was calling upon the church to
heed Proverbs 14:34, which says in paraphrase, "Living by God's
principles promotes a nation to greatness; violating those
principles brings a nation to shame."
I was blaming no one but the terrorists for the terror, but I was
chastising us, the Church, for a generation of departure from God.
I was doing what I have done for nearly 50 years in the pulpit -
confronting the culture and calling for national revival.
ILL-TIMED COMMENTS
My mistake on the "700 Club" was doing this at the time I did it, on
television, where a secular media and audience were also listening.
And as I enumerated the sins of an unbelieving culture, because of
very limited time on the "700 Club," I failed to point the finger at
a sleeping, prayerless and carnal church. We believers must also
acknowledge our sins, repent, and fast and pray for national
revival.
We are all involved in a very sensitive period of national mourning.
We are closing ranks and coming together in a time of great loss, as
we are also facing the likelihood of imminent war.
And if, in that crucial context, my statements seemed harsh and ill-
timed, I truly regret this and apologize.
But, I repeat, I blame no one but the hijackers and terrorists for
the horrific happenings of September 11. But I do believe God's
protection of us as individuals and as a nation is dependent upon
our obedience to His laws.
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Violence against innocent Arab Americans |
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1 Cor 16:14
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1 Corinthians 16:14
Brothers and sisters in Christ:
What do you all think about acts of violence against innocent Arab Americans, such as those reported below? For Christians to participate in or even condone by their silence such acts drags the name of Christ through the mud.
What would Jesus do?
(Please note: this posting is not about forgiving terrorists. It is about Christian treatement of innocent people.)
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(The following is a news story appearing on September 18 in the Washington Post and written by Dana Milbank and Emily Wax.)
"Sept. 18 — President Bush, briefly setting aside his war planning efforts, visited the mosque at the Islamic Center of Washington yesterday to admonish the nation not to avenge last week’s terrorist attacks on innocent American Arabs and Muslims.
(...)
"The Council on American Islamic Relations claims to have received reports of more than 350 attacks against Arab Americans around the country, ranging from verbal harassment to physical assaults. They also received reports of dozens of mosques firebombed or vandalized.
"In Palos Hills, Ill., two Muslim girls were beaten at Moraine Valley College. In Evansville, Ind., a man driving 80 miles an hour rammed his car into a mosque. In both cases, police arrested suspects. Fairfax County police are investigating two weekend bias crimes they say may be linked to the terror attacks" (www.msnbc.com/news/630410.asp)
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How do we open eyes to truth? |
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Deut 7:2
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Hi Tim,
Does it not bother you that our government leaders seem to be playing God here? I have heard the president make such comments as, "the unrighteous will pay". Does anyone not see the wrong in such statements? First of all, who are we to judge unrighteousness? Did not Hitler judge the Jews unrighteous and use this to justify his killing? Where does the bible say that America has the right to rule and judge the world, or that our democratic way is the only true way to run things? Where do we get the right to impose our rule and governing ways upon the rest of the world? Where does the bible say that if a another country doesn't have "X" many of McDonalds on every corner, they are evil? Who says that democratic freedom is righteous? That electing our leaders and having the right to vote is the one pure way? Who issued all these freedoms as righteousness? God gave us the freedom to choose between good and evil. I do not recall Him giving us the freedom to abort babies, marry same sex partners or even to vote for Bush! God gave us the freedom to do what we ought...but we used it to do what we want...including using it to put into place more freedoms than we have the right to have! I have the right to buy something for 1.00 one dollar, and sell it to you for 100.00 dollars. Does that make this a "righteuos" freedom?-Just because it is possible in America? Do you not see that the world stage is being set for the eventual one world control of the anti christ and that we in "this great country" are leading the way? We are not preserving the good old USA by our oppresive actions! Rather we are detroying it! By setting the stage for a one world government, we are destroying this country as we know it today. For tomorrow, it will be under new law and a new government...the one that we are now laying the ground work for! Our true family is the family of God (Matthew 12:46-50) The USA is only the land inwhich we were physically born. We have now been grafted into a new tree and a new family.(Romans 11) Maybe we should redirect our loyalties to line up with our true "people".
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strongholds;) Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ..." (2 Corinthians 10:3-5) coop1 |
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Are there compartments in heaven or hell |
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John 14:2
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Greeting, Charis! I trust you accorded our President a warm welcome while he and the first lady sojourned in your area..... Speaking of heaven (no connection with Bush's visit :-) and hell (still no connection): I do believe Jesus' words give us a clue that there are mansions, compartments, rooms -- call them what you will -- in heaven. None have been noted as being in hell, and even if there are, I'd frankly rather sit in the bleachers of heaven than in a box seat of hell. I nearly said "reserved seat" of hell, but I doubt that there are any. Who would want to reserve a seat there anyway? There are so many going that direction that it's probably set up on a first come, first toasted basis. --Hank |
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Submit to all authority |
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Rom 13:1
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I must obey the laws of the land, whichever land I am in. If I am a visitor in a different nation, I also need to remember I represent my homeland - I am a citizen of the U.S..
Let's say I went to Iraq (as a U.S. Marine). Are you saying that I could not kill Hussein if given a direct order by President Bush? Killing Hussein is against the law in Iraq. Isn't it? The truth of the matter is, that when you are invading a country, you don't care what their laws are.
If there was some sort of legal problem on foreign soil who do I turn to? If I'm not mistaken, I contact the local U.S. Embassy. In the military, would you contact your CO?
Also, if two officers gave you opposing orders, who do you follow? The General takes precedence over a Colonel, the Colonel over a Major, and so on, right? I've never been in the military, but my understanding was that you served your country. (which may have taken many forms - Corporal, Sergeant,...)
I would categorize "my representative, senator, governor, and president" as Caesar - one national earthly authority. We don't obey them directly, we obey the laws that they make/sign. I don't care what laws are passed in Parliament. I don't live in the United Kingdom.
I'm not quite sure I understand what you mean by "masters of our affections". The principle applies throughout. If I worked for Pepsi, I don't obey the Coke people. If I went to Duke, I wouldn't need to obey the Dean at UCLA. |
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Bless Israel - say "God bless Israel"? |
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Gen 12:3
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Do you bless Israel and say and pray "God bless Israel"?
Should President Bush do so? Is it politically incorrect? If so, does it matter?
I've thought about this and I believe we do need to bless Israel, stand beside her and pray and say "God bless Israel" ... and that our leader needs to do the same.
Searcher |
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Bless Israel - say "God bless Israel"? |
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Gen 12:3
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Hi, Search;
I don't think Christians have any special obligations to the modern state called Israel. This Israel is a political entity created by political means; it is unrelated to the nation created by God to serve His holy purposes. There's a big difference between God and the U.N. ;-)
I think Christians should pray for the people and leadership of Israel, just as we should pray for the Palestinian people and for all the lost who have been misled by the "prophet" Mohammad. While Christians do have a special relationship with the ancient nation of Israel, we should be prepared to see the modern state's many warts as well as its virtues.
I don't think President Bush should single out Israel for any special blessings either. It's presumptuous to assume that God wants Israel to hold onto the West Bank or Gaza. God loves the Palestinians who wish to live in peace no less than He loves the Jews in Israel. It's hard for me grasp, but He even loves the terrorists too. President Bush - and all of us - should ask God's blessings on all the people of the world. As Christians, we should ask for God's gospel to be made known to all lost people, especially to the Muslims and Jews who know the name of Jesus and continue to reject him. And we should realize that Palestinian Christians are suffering alongside their Muslim countrymen.
I'm not saying Christians - including the President - should't express to God our special concern for the Middle East. An extra prayer for peace there certainly won't grieve God. But Isael is a political issue, not a religious one and I think the President's utterances on the subject should be political, not religious.
Just my two hundredths of a dollar.
Peace and grace,
Steve aka Indiana Jones
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